Act of Contrition - Am I Really Sorry?
73What IS the Act of Contrition?
For those readers who are not Catholic, you may be familiar with the phrase “act of contrition,” but not the prayer itself. The Act of Contrition is a formulaic (rote) prayer said by Catholics after confessing their sins to a priest. Its text is roughly as follows:
“Oh, my God, I am heartily sorry for having offended You, and I detest all my sins, because I dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell; but most of all because they offend You, my God, Who are all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve, with the help of Your grace, to confess my sins, to do penance, and to amend my life.”
After the penitent has confessed his sins to the priest, he prays this prayer and is then offered absolution.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Act of Contrition. First, I take issue with the part about dreading the loss of heaven and the pains of hell. Second, and much less serious, is the fact that I can never remember the silly thing word for word, and wind up sort of making it up as I go along. That’s actually the case for many Catholics born anytime after the Second Vatican Council.
Older Catholic readers may be gasping for breath now. Making it up as you go along, you say? That’s got to be blasphemy! The younger ones aren’t shocked. Non-Catholic readers are scratching their heads about the whole confession thing to begin with, and don’t quite understand why this would, should, or does make a difference to anyone.
The evolution of confession.
So, in the interest of education, and to explain in depth my love/hate relationship with this prayer, let’s give a little background about Confession. What used to be the called the Sacrament of Penance evolved first into the Sacrament of Confession, and finally into what is now the Sacrament of Reconciliation. What we may see on T.V. or movies these days still reflects the understanding of non-Catholics of Reconciliation as it used to be.
You see a person step into a booth, make the sign of the cross, and recite the words, “Bless me, Father, for I have sinned. It has been two thousand and eleven years since my last confession.” Well, that much still happens – maybe. For one thing, now it is acceptable for a penitent to go to confession outside of that little booth. They may choose still to confess behind a screen (which I know is still a common practice for older-school Catholics) or they may sit in a chair face-to-face with a priest and confess that way. That is my preference. Many churches have built in what they now call reconciliation rooms; a small room set aside for confession that isn’t even DARK!
You see, something that has frightened Catholics for many years about their own faith is Confession. First, it’s scary to go into a little dark box and talk to a man you can’t see and tell him what you’ve done wrong. This is true especially for children. Children who are participating in their First Holy Communion are encouraged to confess prior to doing so. Imagine long ago these little second graders hopping into the confession booth to tell the priest that they were angry with their parents, they pulled their sister’s hair, they hit their brother, or they told a lie. That could be a little nerve wracking in itself. Then imagine that they have to say they’re sorry for it. To do so, they have to recite the Act of Contrition and the priest will give them absolution.
Am I really sorry?
Is it really right for a second grader to fear the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell? Honestly, I’d rather they just leave that part out! Hell, I’d rather they leave that part out for me, and I’m thirty-six years old!
For children to be taught to fear God is one thing – respect and awe are what that should mean to them. For them to be told that their forgiveness is dependent on whether they’re afraid that God is going to send them to Hell? Uh, no. That’s not going to work for me. Isn’t it enough for a child to be sorry that they hurt God’s feelings because God IS love, and wants us to love not only Him but all of His people all of the time? I’m God’s child, even at 36 years of age, and that’s all I want to do. And, in truth, that’s all God wants from us.
There is a huge theological discussion that can creep up about the Act of Conversion. What is attrition versus contrition would be the first question. I’m going to attempt this discussion in layman’s term now, just to give you an idea of why the Act of Contrition is what it is. When we caught doing something wrong – we’ve lied about a friend, we’ve spilled a secret we shouldn’t have, we’ve cheated on a spouse – we generally find out later that we’re sorry for this action.
When we figure out that we’re sorry, we have to figure out why. If we’re only sorry because we got busted, that’s what makes us dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell, and it’s not really enough to effect change. Theologically, that is what attrition means. But, if we realize that our sorrow is that we hurt someone we truly love by our actions, we are genuinely sorry and can amend our behavior and our life moving forward. That is the theological definition of contrition.
Why do I confess?
So, part of my irritation with the Act of Contrition is the whole “dread the loss of fire and the pains of hell” thing. If that’s the only reason I’m going to confession, then the rest of the prayer is pretty much useless in my opinion. I’m not going to be able to amend my life when I leave the confessional (or the reconciliation room), and without being able to honestly say that I will amend my life, the priest has every right to refuse me absolution.
Now, let me explain something here. When non-Catholics think of Reconciliation in the Catholic Church, they think that Catholics are going to confess their sins to a mere man, and that there is no reason that should ever happen. After all, they say, can’t you simply confess your sins to Jesus? And isn’t, after all, Jesus the only mediator between God and man? Isn’t this really like idolatry, they say, or something akin to it? The short answer is no.
The longer answer is that when a man is ordained a priest in the Catholic Church, a spiritual change takes place in him. He becomes no longer just a man in matters of ministry. The Latin phrase that the Church uses to describe him when he is ministering is alter Christus…another Christ. So, when the priest is ministering to his congregation, whether at Mass, at a wedding, at a funeral, or in the confessional, he stands in persona Christi…in the person of Christ.
Regarding the Sacrament of Reconciliation, I am not confessing to or receiving absolution from a mere man. It is Christ Himself to whom I make my confession and from whom I receive absolution. So, when I think of the Act of Contrition and the wording of it, I get annoyed. Am I really going to tell Jesus, “Well, I’m sorry because I got busted because I’m afraid of what You’re going to do to me?” Nope. I love Him with all my heart and I am truly sorry that He is hurt by something I’ve done or that someone else I love has been hurt by my actions.
Oops, forgot the words! On purpose?
So, it’s not unusual for me to omit the whole “I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of Hell,” bit, because in truth, I don’t. Jesus’ Death and Resurrection have assured that I will one day make it into Heaven…but I have a whole life to live loving His people before that happens, and I want to make sure that in living that life, I am WAY more concerned about making up for the things I’ve done to hurt them – and Him – along the way.
So, if you can’t remember the words to the Act of Contrition, don’t worry. Most priests (who stand in the person of Christ) really just want to hear that you’re sorry that you hurt the One Who Saved You, and that you will leave and make changes to your life so that it doesn’t happen again. If they hear that, they give you absolution, and although I realize it was originally penned in Latin, I believe there are no more beautiful words in the English language than the prayer of absolution.
“God, the Father of mercies, (2 Cor. 1:3) through the death and resurrection of His son has reconciled the world to Himself (2 Cor. 5:19; cf. Rom. 11:15; Col.1:20) and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; (John 20:21-23) through the ministry of the Church (2 Cor. 5:18-20) may God give you pardon and peace, (Luke 7:50; Col. 1:14) and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.”
vote upvote downshareprintflag
- Useful (4)
- Funny (1)
- Awesome (2)
- Beautiful (3)
- Interesting
CommentsLoading...
well done here,... i am bound to say to you that the understanding you show for the concept sets you in good stead,... the "fear of the loss of heaven and the pains of hell" part of the prayer that you so detest is there for the less spiritualy advanced,... the spiritual child if you will, that is sorry they got busted as you say, rather than sorry for the wrong,... the prayer encompass' all levels of spiritual age,.. it does not seem to me that you have a problem with this prayer,... you've meerly out grown parts of it,... as you well should have at this stage in your spiritual life.
very well done here, well done indeed
and it is my opinion and that of others that for you to improvise the prayer of contrition a bit to make it more personaly apropriate demonstrates your spiritual growth,.... after all,.. it is intent that matters is it not
sanctasapientia, thank you so much for reading and commenting! The Sacraments are something I know quite well. I appreciate that you found something valuable in this hub! As far as understanding the issues, I've been in just about every spot regarding reconciliation - terrified of it, grateful for it, confused about the necessity of it. I think it's a greatly underused sacrament, and I pray often that more people will come to love it and value it as I do.
Hope to see you back soon! :-)
Hi, stclairjack! Thanks so much for reading this one. I was a little concerned that it wouldn't be well received, if anyone read it at all. There is a great deal of truth in what you say about outgrowing prayers, or parts of them, especially the rote prayers that are such a huge part of Catholic tradition.
As I mentioned, I have grown to love the Sacrament of Reconciliation over the years, and I pray all the time that all Catholics could come to the same place. I know how hard it is to approach the Lord that way, but it's so valuable for not just our spiritual growth, but also our spiritual happiness. And, it's hard for a reason. It SHOULD be hard to admit that we aren't perfect sons and daughters of God, but the formula for absolution is so beautiful and such a reassurance that we are loved and treasured by God no matter what.
with your understabding, you should write a hub on the value of rote/traditional prayer and spontaneous prayer,.. i grew up a missionery baptist but wanted rome since a child, only in the last few years able to take the steps needed to start my path the the church,..
i hear feel see and understand the beauty of traditional and pepetative prayer,... but also the sinceriity of improvised prayer,... i look forward to reading your work on the subject,.. you know you'll do it
-JMJ -jack
I took it out of my profile, but I spent three years in initial formation to become a nun, so I've come to learn the value of ALL kinds of prayer. It's my opinion that the deeper one gets into the Bible (and Missionary Baptists get in there, lemme tell ya! :-D) the more one longs for Catholicism. But, it's frightening to take that step, I certainly understand (as I came into the Church as an adult). God bless you, my dear! Know that I'll be praying for you (in all kinds of ways) as you make your journey. Have you read anything yet by Jeff Cavins or Scott Hahn. They are both converts (I know for certain that Hahn was an adult convert and was a Protestant minister, I can't honestly remember Cavins' story) and have written beautiful things about the Church and their conversion experiences.
Hahn has written an amazing collection about the Mass titled "The Lamb's Supper." It's fabulous!
+JMJ - Blessings, dear one!
I'm totally not making light of the serious nature here, but I'm watching a show and the lady is in Confession and she opened the little door and tossed in a roll of money so her kid can go to their school and he threw it back at her! lol.
But on a serious note, my jr. high bf was Catholic and our parents switched off with his going to our church and me going to theirs, but the only one who ever went to confession was his dad after he beat him and his sister with a belt buckle. I often wonder what ever happened to him. Great hub Mo v-up n' Maybe I'm going to start calling you Buddhaette since you're so enlightening :)
I'm a non but grew up with most of my friends being catholic. I really don't think just because a man (and not a woman?) is ordained doesn't mean he's more than just a man. IMO that just makes no sense. I also remember all the silly business (again my opinion) that told girls not to wear certain shoes or ride a horse bareback. I'm in no way anti-religion but we're all just human beings (well most of us:-P) just trying to get through life with the least amount of resistance and scaring the bajeebes out of folks about going to hell is just wrong. Great hub! Peace!! Tom
Kat, thank you! I'll take Buddhaette! You're a hoot! But you know, maybe your boyfriend's dad WAS truly sorry because he knew how much he had hurt his children and knew that God would find that abhorrent. It's saddening that more Catholics don't embrace the Sacrament. It's only a Canon law requirement prior to taking communion if you aware of a mortal sin that you've committed, but it's a wonderful practice to get into going before any Mass. I wish I could work myself into that habit again. Thanks for commenting my friend - you know how much I love you!
justom, there's a lot that has to do with not ordaining women and the whole "is the priest more than just a man" question. It is ONLY in terms of ministry, and it is a spiritual thing that happens at the moment of ordination. I would think that it is the same for even Protestant ministers. Catholics also believe it because of certain scriptures. I totally understand about getting through life with the least amount of resistance. I feel ya' brother! I always hope that understanding things a little better from each angle with help us do just that. But, that whole thing is what makes lots of older Catholics talk about Catholic guilt and how awful it can be. I mean, am I really sorry, did I confess just right...etc. Who wants that kind of pressure? I think it's all about love...love...and more love...for God and for each other. No matter what.
Great hub MO! You explain this so well - I do not think people truly "get" the priest is acting as God in essence - it's hard to understand the concept so bravo for explaining it so well. I actually have an issue with that part of it - I think I should be able to keep it between me and the real boss, you know? I don't mean to be a pain but I know others that felt that way too, I don't knock it though because some people like the act of confession - it makes some people feel better to lighten the load that way. For me, it was never a source of comfort. I think it should be a personal choice but it really isn't, is it? I am not certain any more but I thought you had to go to confession at certain times and if not, you could not receive communion?
And I can see why people aren't getting their backs up here MO - you are presenting the information not beating people with it;)!!
Real, Canon Law only dictates that you HAVE to go to confession if you are conscious of having committed a MORTAL sin and intend to receive communion. It's an unwritten tradition that if you're only going to confess once a year, even if you aren't conscious of mortal sin, it should be before you receive communion at Easter. Other than that, you can pray or confess on your own. It's a huge source of comfort, I'll admit, because not only do I feel reconciled with God when I'm finished, but I feel reconciled with the people of the Church as well. That's why I love the prayer of absolution. The words in bold are the only ones the priest HAS to say, and I get sad sometimes when they don't use the whole prayer.
Well there ya go - Id be taking up a ton of the poor priests time. I do go around committing mortal sins ALOT! Haha:) A Lot:) whew.
I am very glad it is a source of comfort for you MO. That's what religion should focus on too - whatever makes your life happy is what I think you should go with. Everyone in fact. That IS the point. I just want everyone to have peace whatever form they find it in;)
Oddly. A my favorite Prayer was "yea as I walk through the valley of death I will fear no evil...psalms 23. I think?
I know little about the Catholic faith. It seems that continual repentance becomes routine out of fear. That is sad. I believe God wants us to repent because we are genuinely regretful that we sinned. Then His grace covers us because the Law never can be followed entirely. I cannot see Jesus refusing us because we forgot a word or mixed up a phrase.
I learned a lot from your Hub. Thank you Mo2Chi.
Hyphenbird, I think the Church is coming quite a distance in encouraging its faithful to be faithful for the sake of who Christ is now as opposed to being faithful for the sake of law. It's the same issue that Christ spoke against when He came the first time - law versus love. If you have any questions about anything Catholic, feel free to ask. I can always answer them for you, and if I'm unable to do so, I can find you an answer. Peace, sister. :-) I'm grateful that you learned from this hub.
Voted up & useful. Excellent writing. Good stuff for many to spend time seriously thinking over. Especially appreciated the whole idea of the evolution of confession--so true & so sadly tragic.
Blessings & much encouragement.
Thank you, Ken. I appreciate your feedback a great deal...especially because I have so much respect for your writing! What is tragic to me is the number of older Catholics (those catechized prior to and immediately following Vatican II), who are still so frightened of the Sacrament. It's such a beautiful thing to me, and I wish that their views of it (and practice) could evolve along with the understanding and presentation in the Church.
Peace, brother! Hope the trip is still going well, and can't wait to hear from you once you're in NM.
Probably one of your best hubs and way too short. You could write a book on this subject and should. Even some of your replies to others have material in them that you can expand on in greater detail.
For me, the entire thing is about psychology. Confession works on many levels. It is designed to both allow the individual forgive themselves on the one hand and to warn people of what they should be sorry for even if they aren't yet.
What does feeling sorry mean? It means you feel bad for an act you have committed and you know it can not be undone.
I have to give you an example that happened in my own life as a small child. My mother had given me new running shoes. For some reason I got the back of one snagged on something and made a small hole. That was an accident so I didn't feel bad. But for some reason I stuck my finger in the hole and pulled on it. The shoe ripped. I was horrified. I suddenly realized it was something that could not be undone. I couldn't take it back. I cursed myself, not just because I had been an idiot and completely ruined my shoes, but because I know my mother would be upset and I was going to get shit. But I was already sorry. My mother being angry with me wasn't required for the stupidity I had done to sink in. Why could I just not have done this to myself?
Now when you look at it you may think it sounds silly. To feel that guilty about a shoe. But it was a lesson well worth learning. Even I knew it was just a shoe. The thing I realized was that if I felt this bad for a small stupidity, what would I feel if I allowed myself to make an even bigger mistake like kill a person? Such guilt would be unfathomable and the fact that it can not be undone or paid for like a new shoe, struck home even at that early age. It was an epiphany that held me in good stead for the rest of my life. I realized I had to take control of my actions because whether I did them with intent or by my own stupidity or accident, I was responsible.
It is this awareness that acts can not be undone that forces us to be moral and caring. If I could have waved my hand and made it never happen, I could absolve myself of guilt instantly. But I couldn't.
A person hates it when they get caught. They feel foolish and worthless. But unless they want to change and know how, they may do it again and again and it will eat at them and convince them they are just bad people, or they rationalize their actions by thinking anyone else would do the same to them. But most of those people are never really that are happy in their own skin.
So why do we feel bad? Is it just because we have let someone down? That is part of it in some circumstances.
To feel good again we have to make it right. But it will never be as if it never happened.
You need to be forgiven. Once that is done and you know you are now smart enough to never do it again, you begin to feel good about yourself. So a mother forgiving her son for being momentarily stupid makes all the difference in the world.
This is why Catholicism has it's confessionals. They are there to absolve people of their guilt by means of a father figure that offers absolute forgiveness if you mean it when you say you will never do it again. No matter what the crime.
But to me, it is most important that you can forgive yourself. The church ritual can do that as well if you believe, but you don't need a ritual if you don't believe there is a god out there, the process is the same.
First off is understanding why you feel bad. If it is only because you got caught and you fear the consequences that should be enough to stop you doing it.
That's why the fear of hell is in the Catholic ritual. So what if I cheat on my taxes? I don't think they are fair anyway so I just won't pay them and lie about what I made. I'm not hurting anyone and I'm getting even.
But what if you get caught? Do you really want to bring tax hell upon yourself? Ruin your credit, go to jail, lose your house etc etc? Hell no. Getting caught is a very good reason not to do certain things. If you want to fight tax laws there are ways to do that. How bad will you feel if you lose everything? And you will have to blame yourself, even if you blame the system. It was your action that brought the shit down on your head and you knew it was a good possibility. So even if you don't feel guilt for doing it, you feel guilt for the problems you have caused yourself. Once done, too late to rethink.
We can forgive ourselves if we make amends and promise ourselves we will never do it again and mean it, and actively watch ourselves as we would watch a small child. It is all about making ourselves feel good in our own skin.
There is so much to say about this subject because it really is all about how we feel and why. But one of the big things to learn from this is that there is no such thing as a selfless act.
Self is the very thing we are trying to make feel good by any act. And self is what is being forgiven if forgiveness from another is warranted and/or sought.
It is all about cause and effect and how that effects us at any given moment. The most selfish people are the most moral people, though few understand the difference between positive selfishness and negative destructive selfishness.
Write a book about this. I'll tell you how to publish for Amazon Kindle and Iphone for free. ;)
I remember our Act of Contrition totally different... or maybe I am thinking of a different prayer! I don't know - but I do know I hated memorizing prayers. I have a keen memory for some things and not so much for other things. Therefore, when it came to the prayers, I would put them in my short term memory - boom - pass my prayers exam in CCD - and then the next day it was as if I never knew them. Therefore - I mumbled it when I was in church. If you are quiet enough - no one can tell the difference! Now I must go to confession. Does this count... lol
I'll let it count. I don't think you need to confess forgetting your prayers and mumbling with the rest of the congregation! HAHAHAHA...I always did that till I learned them in full because I wasn't totally Catholic until I was an adult. :-)
Slarty, first...
"Now when you look at it you may think it sounds silly. To feel that guilty about a shoe."
Silly? Not at all. I understand that completely. In all honesty, I had several episodes like that in my childhood, and do you know that when I went to confession for the first time when I was 20 years old, I confessed those things?
You are absolutely right that there is a huge psychological element to confession. It's been said by many great Catholic theological authors over time that confession has both a vertical and a horizontal aspect to it (like the Cross obviously). The vertical aspect is where we make peace with our God, and he forgives those things which have offended Him. The horizontal is where we make peace with each other. If there is restitution to be made to another human being we do it that way, etc.
I've always wanted to write a book about the Sacraments in general. I think you're absolutely right that there's enough on Confession alone. I can say with certainty that there are already many books on the subject by Catholic writers. I'd love to be able to touch the non-Catholic audience as well like this hub has. Btw, thank you for your wonderful compliment at the beginning.
As always, there is so much to say, but so little time to actually say it!
Slarty - I agree with you on maybe every point. I'd like to also add this - I told my ex husband once - that if you are doing something you wouldn't want others to find out about - it's something you probably shouldn't be doing at all. Keeping it sceret doesn't cha ge the fact that it's wrong!
This is exactly how I try to live my life - I am not doing anything I would be embarrassed about anyone finding out about. Have I done things wrong in the past? YES! That is how I lean red it felt wrong, right? Someone on another hub said they were sorry for me for not believing the same as
them. They said I was a sinner - I sinner daily. I should ask for forgiveness!! Oh and I shall perish in he'll btw! Don't worry I don't believe that at all.
I say - your God would be proud of the way I live, I'm pretty sure of it:)!!!
To me that's the point. The subjects that Catholicism tough on are not actually religious ideas, but rather they try to address the human condition in general. Even without religion the dynamic of trespass and forgiveness is real.
So one could write a book that would appeal to a secular audience and reach both a general theistic audience as well as an atheist audience.
Go for it! ;)
You're right, Slarty...hmmm...
I may actually get to putting some major thought into that!
Real, actually Slarty is one my atheist friends... :-) That being said, you would be amazed (from what I already know about you) what a christian life you're living. I say it with a small C because I know you have beliefs outside that structure. But when it comes right down to it, yes Christianity does mean that believing in Jesus as the only way to the Father is necessary, but in regular, everyday terms you still live the good life, and the honest life that Jesus asks us to live.
And I am TOTALLY with you on the thing about not doing it if you can't get caught. I tell my husband all the time that we could have been living high on the hog those two years we waited for his social security (we got skillz, mad skillz...lol) but we chose to live with integrity rather than cast our morals aside. Thank God, because now we have nothing to be ashamed of or forgiven for. :-)
Right MO - the only person who has to go to sleep inside my head at night is me. I sleep pretty good. If I had things I felt guilty for - I really would stay awake giving myself a real hard time and I don't like that! I like going to bed with a clear conscious:) then I can have nice dreams in the subconscious too!
Exactly, Real. Ultimately, that you can go to bed every night with a clear conscious is what matters.:-) And I have no doubt that you can. You're kind, you're honest, and you know what matters in life! Not to mention good dreams are always welcome. :-)
Well I'm scared to do bad stuff - I'm not talking about like smoking or swearing - I mean like stealing, lying, cheating - like that. I know I would be sorry and I know I would pay dearly just wrestling with my own thoughts. I just hope to treat others the same way I want to be treated with intermittent bursts of cursing when I feel the need! Haha! But yes I just don't have much to fear other than being a jerk myself, ya know? I'm actually afraid of being an a@@. I occasionally lose my temper and yell but I try to just mind my business and be responsible for me and my kids.
RealHousewife
I usually tell people like that, that sin and morality are two different things. Morality is natural in cause and effect. I harm you and you will try to harm me. Harm is naturally immoral because it brings conflict to your life as well as that of others. Immorality falls into two main categories: Theft and mental/physical harm up to and including killing. An immoral act is an act in which one does real harm with intent.
Then there is ethics. An unethical act can also cause harm but it may not be exactly immoral either. We use the term for business practice. But it can be a shaky line between being unethical and immoral.
Expanding my example about tax, it is unethical not to pay tax because your contract with society demands everyone pitch in. However, your act may become immoral if you get caught, because you may be harming your wife and children by losing your home and going to jail. In a sense even knowing the potential for that happening and doing it anyway could be considered immoral.
In other words, if not paying your tax was ok as far the government and the rest of the people was concerned then the act would not be immoral. But if there is an agreement and breaking it means you put people in jeopardy then it could be considered immoral. Immorality is intent.
Sin is a decree. Not a king nor a god can decree morality. Decreed morality is not moral. There is no intent on your end. It is a law. So working on Saturday may be a decreed sin, but it is not immoral in a real sense. There is no negative effect to anyone if you pick up sicks for your fire on Saturday because you forgot to on Friday. What makes it a dangerous thing to do is only the belief of others. It is not based on objective cause and effect. But may be immoral if you know others in your family will suffer if you do it anyway.
There is no immorality in not believing a god exists even if one decrees that it is but doesn't send you the memo. And there is nothing immoral about not believing the guy who says he got it but can't show it to you because you just have to have faith. But if your society punishes you or others in your family for not believing, then it may be immoral to broadcast the fact to others and put your family in danger on a principal.
And yet very often this kind of rebellion is seen as heroic. In religion it is seen as martyrdom.
Yet any god that can toss you into eternal suffering for the fact that you can't have faith that what his followers say is any more than imagination, and he isn't willing to show up personally to set the record straight, is acting immorally. Immorality being the intent to cause harm.
For all the love some of the participants of religion can show on their own, they are always stuck with scripture that shows their god as immoral. A really moral loving god would say that what matters is how we live and how we treat others. Whether we believe it exists or not is irrelevant. Whether we live for ever or die a final death is irrelevant. How we help shape the world is all that counts.
Of course Motown feels exactly that way and she would make a perfect goddess, and to her husband and family and friends she is exactly that. ;) But she and Christianity have a Schizophrenic god. On the one hand the figure they try to base their lives on, and on the other hand a tyrant egomaniac they inherited from the Jews/middle eastern pantheon, and have to try to apologize for (As in the theistic practice of apology.) or ignore as flawed ancient misunderstanding. But never the less inspired. ;)
The best we atheists can do is live as good a life as we can, doing as little harm as possible and hope to hell that if there is a god it's not a moron.
And don't forget to pay your taxes Slarty:) lol. I like that idea of it all. Taxes are a great example here too - people can cheat all the time and they do. They don't see it as cheating other Americans, they see it as cheating like everyone else does:) least I think that is the thought process and justification of it. I don't even cheat on my taxes, I'm positive my accountant is doing it for me because he's pretty good;) haha!
Keep it up guys, this is exactly the kind of back and forth I always hope for. I love my followers. You guys are, like, the awesomest! ;-) And, Slarty, that I am an inspired apologist...you've been just full of compliments for me lately. I thank you, very sincerely. :-)
Well I owed a bunch last year so I had to find one who was a little better with the laundry. Ya know? Haha! I'm totally not serious - my luck the IRS will audit me next year;)
Hey, clean laundry is an incredibly important thing!!! ;-) Don't say that! I keep thinking it's time for me and Michael to be audited. We haven't had anything crazy happen for almost six months. We're past our limit. Hehehe.
Well really I guess it wouldn't be any sweat for me - that accountant can deal with it if I do get audited. I can blame him - I didn't even see the numbers:)
Really mine are pretty straight forward - I get paid by check from clients and they 1099 me at year end. Believe you me they aren't going to let me get away without paying my share;)
Oh, that I know. No worries. If you get audited, I'll pray you right through it. ;-) HAHAHAHA
I love how you guys go from remembering prayers to being audited on the taxes... lol... to funny.
And thanks for the assurance - I will continue to mumble my prayers since I hardly remember any of them now! LOL
Some of this I knew, some of this I didn't. But one thing I do know is that if you aren't truly sorry then it's best not to open your mouth. God recognizes a hypocrite when he sees one.
The Frog
Darling Mo, yet another fantastic and informative hub. Being of the other faith, I have thought long and hard about the Confessional. I do not have the knowledge to depict the right from wrong of the Catholic faith, but I have always questioned the ability of the Priest to offer absolution and forgiveness. Surely it is never a case of forgiveness from child abuse, murder, rape, animal abuse and other such crimes?
I am always willing to acknowledge when I have done wrong, but I do this face to face with the person I have wronged. I can not understand what use the confessional can be to the 2nd party involved. It leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth to think that people do get away with so much. I hope you understand where I am coming from, but I am willing to learn. x
bluestar, I look at it this way, and please don't understand, I love the Church with all my heart, but I love it for what it CAN BE sometimes, and not for what it is. There is a long list of things that are considered "sin" in the Church, and they even have a grading policy sort of...lol A "venial" sin doesn't sever one from his/her relationship with God. A "mortal" sin does. What that basically means is that if a person dies, having committed a mortal sin and is conscious of it, they do not go to Heaven. Both, however, and thankfully, can be forgiven by God, and ARE. There are cases, however, where a priest may withhold absolution until certain conditions are met. If someone has raped/murdered/abused - they may be asked to turn themselves into the police and as much as possible to make amends to the person they have harmed. If they were to refuse, the priest would then REFUSE absolution, and tell them immediately to turn themselves in.
I definitely understand how non-Catholics feel about the Sacrament, and I was hoping to shed a little bit of light on it for Catholics and non alike. If you still (or EVER) have questions, feel free to let me know. I'm considering a series in the near future. This has received a much greater response than I anticipated.
BBG, that's what is wonderful about us - conversation, girl! It's never, EVER dull, and it may go off track sometimes, but it always comes back around. :-)
Hey, Frog! Good to see you! Agreed...God recognizes a hypocrite, and frankly, most people do as well. Be really, truly sorry before you say you are, and do something maybe that shows it.
Thanks so much for reading and commenting! I appreciate your presence a lot, a lot, a lot! :-)
Very nice. I stopped going to confession -was a Catholic for 33 yrs- after being born again...and I don't like that word too much, I like bible believer or Christian....but the Catholic Church still appeals to me, how could it not after a devoted 33yrs.
Anyhow, as Christians we say what if a priest isn't available why can't we confess to God by ourselves? But I sometimes feel a need to be absolved or confess....
I prefer the dark screened room, who wants to confess face to face esp sins of impurity?? And why does the priest ask intimate questions of that like not only how many times but of what nature? I think I know but anyways, I like how you mentioned that Christ is in the priest and I'm ambivilent so what do you think?
Hiya, schoolgirl...good to see you. :-) Well, I think the first thing I'd say is that Catholics are Christians too. We're born again no less than "Bible believing Christians" are. We have doctrinal differences - when baptism should happen, how baptism should happen, whether we should confess to a priest or directly to God...etc. The Catholic Church certainly allows for confession directly to God when priests are unavailable. They even allow for BAPTISM is no on is available to baptize. They call it a baptism of desire. I'm not going to get all theological and stuff, but even with all the "rules" that the Church has, it's all ULTIMATELY about one's relationship with Jesus more than anything else.
And, like Slarty says, there is a HUGE psychological component to confession. Sometimes, we need to HEAR the words - I absolve you - or you are forgiven.
The main reason that the priest asks those questions is to find out if the sin YOU think might be a mortal sin isn't actually - also it's to help him identify what sort of counseling and penance to give you for healing purposes. Remember, confession is not about condemnation, it's about forgiveness (absolution) and healing - healing of your relationship with God and with others.
I understand the ambivalence. I've gone through some of that myself in my sixteen years as a Catholic. As to whether you go behind a screen or face to face is TOTALLY a personal preference. I always prefer face to face, but others might not. So, as far as that goes, make your own personal choice. :-)
But ultimately, remember, it's not the Sacrament of Penance anymore. It's not even Confession anymore. It's Reconciliation. All about forgiveness and healing. :-)
I hope that helps, dearest sister.
You got a good point - I was gone most of the last couple of days and my phone is ringing off the hook! I shake my head and go oh boy - I have got a lot to catch up on... lol :)
I think that just goes to show...you should never EVER leave the house, BBG.
Yeah BBG - REPENT! Do not leave the house of holy hub;)
See...that's good advice, Real. Stay with me (she says in hypnotic tones) I know the waaaayyyyy.....
;-)
MO - hey if you be a minister - I'll be your flock! Lol! We could make up our own church and rules and we will have male pole dancers for Jesus!
If you believe in God say Woah!
Real, you're a nut! Woah!
Yep. I know. I hear there's medicine for it, but what the hey? Life might get boring! Lol!
We're putting the anti nut happy pills in the water, remember? Just give it time...lol
Hey Mo - I just thought of a recipe I know you will LOVE:) Here it is:
How to Make Holy Water:
Take a cup of water put it in a pan on the stove and boil the hell out of it! LOL
You can't forget - if you are going to make Holy water do all of the above and then add the happy pill... maybe it will work by process of osmosis... lol Woah! :)
And I will repent tomorrow... I got to burnt today to do anything but sit around and write tomorrow! LOL
Holy water already does the same thing, BBG.....If you belieeeevvveee (hypnotic voice inserted here). :-)
Real, that is priceless...I know several Catholics, including priests who will get quite a chuckle out of that! Thanks!
Mo - I'm glad to pass it along - I get a chuckle every time it comes to mind!
Of course...you should. It's cute! ;)
Really great hub MO! I remember NOT being able to memorize the Act of Contrition when I was supposed to. I just could never do it. Although many years later, I was able to memorize Madonna's version. Hmmmm!
Nice job!
Sharyn
Funny! I wasn't a Catholic as a kid, Sharyn, and I memorized Madonna's version too! LMAO Thanks for the great comment!
Hi,
I came to take a look at your hubs since we’ve met on the forum. This was an interesting read as I know nothing about Catholism, other than most people I know who are lapsed Catholics have had guilt issues, so it was good to read a different perspective.
And I agree with what you write about the difference between saying sorry because of fear of punishment, and truly feeling sorry.
Thank you, Melovy, and it's a pleasure to see you here around my hubs. It's also been lovely to meet you! :-) I could talk about my faith all day, honestly. It's a rich and lovely faith full of all kinds of beauty. Few people who understand it every truly want to leave.
And, yes, even in our dealings with each other, it's much better to approach someone to ask forgiveness because we are truly sorry that we've offended them, rather than because we dread their punishment.
The first time I heard the Act of Contrition with the part that you don't like was in Madonna's video (she doesn't respect anything anyway). Yes, I agree with you it is pretty drastic the way she recites it, especially for children. But I am 64 years old, made my first holy communion when I was 9 years old. I had never heard that version of the prayer. I learned it: Oh my God I am heartly sorry for having offended thee, and I detest all my sins because of they just punishments, but MOST OF ALL BECAUSE THEY OFFEND THEE MY LORD who art all good and deserving of all my love. I firmly resolve with the HELP OF THY GRACE to sin no more and avoid the near occasion of sin, amen. It was revised probably for the same reason you're saying, but some Catholics never get updated, much less non-Catholics and Madonna.....well she only gets worse morally as she ages.
I don't so much mind the version you learned. Believe it or not, I learned the prayer in the late nineties. But, I've found that most priests just look for an expression of true contrition that acknowledges our offenses toward God. As for Madonna - I'm totally with you on that one. Thanks so much for stopping in. :D
sanctasapientia 11 months ago
This is a nice piece! You deal with some of the issues surrounding Confession and reconciliation really well.
I usually include in my own version of the Act of Contrition an acknowledgment that my sins are the reason that Jesus is on the Cross.